Fannish vs. Original: My Writing Thoughts

[chasingtides]

I have been doing a lot of fannish writing since finals ended, about fifteen thousand words of it, give or take a bit. That's quite a lot for me, especially as I haven't been writing every day.

I kind of feel bad that I'm not writing my original stuff - or I feel like I should feel bad that I'm not writing my original stuff. I have plenty of in-process original ideas and some waiting around in the wings. I've got zombies and werewolves and a whole steam powered Mongolian empire.

Somehow, though, I feel like my fannish work is more fulfilling. People actually read it for one. I periodically post my original stuff to my writing journal (journeybysea) when I feel proud of it, but as far as I can tell, no one ever bothers to read that. And certainly no one wants to publish it. It languishes.

And writing, as much as I do it because it brings me joy and fulfills me, is about communication. I am expressing myself and my ideas and interacting with my world in words. If I'm interacting with a void, speaking but not hearing, writing but not reading, I am having only half of a conversation and I have never been one to talk to myself when I can talk to others. Even when I was an angst-ridden teenager, I was never big on private journaling - my private thoughts just spiral in on each other until they are incomprehensible - and that is much how my original works are feeling at the moment.

I had hoped to find fellow writers, ones I could interact with on perhaps a monthly basis, but the groups around me explicitly say that they have no desire to welcome science fiction and fantasy writers. While I don't write hard sci-fi/fantasy, I am sure that my zeppelin riding Mongolians and post-apocalyptic zombie cities wouldn't be welcome in these circles. And that's fine - I probably wouldn't be happy workshopping Harlequin-style romance.

But it leaves me a little high and dry with my original writing activities. I could do it. I do do it. But it often ends up feeling like a dead end activity. Communication is a two way street and, at least for the moment, my original writings feel like a one-way dead end. (In addition to these problems, I ask myself, how can I improve as a writer if I am the only one who can give myself feedback? This is a recipe for disaster.)

Fannish writings, on the other hand, particularly if I am participating in a contest or an exchange or even, as I ponder signing up for spn_j2_bigbang, a time lined project with a pre-existing support system, I have a community. They will, I hope, tell me when my writing is lousy. I know they let me know when my writing is good. I am currently floating on writer's cloud nine after seeing the reception of my holiday exchange pieces. (I like making people happy. This is a flaw of mine - I knit for people, I cook for people, I write for people, and often the biggest reward I can get is someone saying, "Wow. Thank you for taking the time and energy. This made me happy.")

I was going to put this under my "writing thoughts" filter, but then I thought better of it. I'm interested in seeing what people have to say about this, whether you are involved in fannish writings yourself or not, whether you write or not.

Comments

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Don't let lack of comments get to you in terms of what can be published and what can't. Much as I say "I'd be happy posting to the internet with my fic. I don't care about money I just want people to read my stuff" getting published is a better guarantor of readership. People online, I've found, don't want to read original fiction unless you've already proven yourself-- and even then they usually don't. They'll happily gobble up your fanfic and clamor for more, but when they want their original fix they go to published works.

Working on my novels is great, but it also feels... dissatisfying in a way fanfic doesn't. No one will read it for years to come, most likely, and it takes forever. Whereas with fanfic I can spend maybe half an hour writing a one-shot and the praise can be absolutely lavish. I'm lucky to have some friends who'll read my original fiction, but they're not critical in the way I hope a writing group to be. Fandom is a much easier way for me to flex my literary muscle and get feedback since I have an audience invested in what I have to say and how I say it-- funny, considering what so many "real" writers have to say about fanfiction being a talentless hack's attempt at writing.

...That said, I would be more than happy to fiddle with writing group type stuff with you. I was part of one for a while and can get you the ringleader if you want. They meet every 3 weeks to discuss each other's work. It didn't work for me, but you might like it.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

Oh, I say no one's publishing it because I send it out to magazines and such. I am nothing if not ambitious. However, I admit that when no one reads my original stuff and I just get the standard rejection letters, it is comforting to crawl back to fanfiction, where I'll actually get feedback. Even when it's critical, which admittedly hasn't been happening as much lately, it's something.

(I have higher hopes for the Mongolian steampunk as many people, especially those in real life who have publishing ties, have expressed an interest. However, it is incredibly research-heavy and I am currently doing enough of that for the Thesis That May Never Be and I don't need to push myself further into that particular well of despair.)

As for the writer's group thing, that'd be great. (And hey, maybe I can work more on either the zombies or the Mongolians.)

[fmyates.livejournal.com]

I feel, you. When i first started posting PAN it really felt like no one cared at all. The plan for this year is to finish that, and start 2 other projects. One that you are a VERY important part of. In the end just keep walking forward. I mean you have to believe in you. Hell i'm going to try and self publish a comic this year that as far as i can tell is like every thing that doesn't sell in comics, female protagonists,no super-heroes,American history. It will more than likely die a horrible death, but who knows? With that in mind we'll try to make some room for your Mongolian Steampunk. We can all go down in flames together, it'll be a party.

[maccaj.livejournal.com]

I find this an interesting post. I totally understand wanting/needing feedback; I think all writers thrive on it. However, I find fandom (meaning all fandoms, collectively) to be more of a vacuum than any original writing will generate. I say that as someone who got her start writing fandom - reams and reams of it - and who still dabbles in various fandoms.

Vacuum isn't really the right word - it's more like an echo chamber. Consider this: With an original piece, you may get one or two comments. They're from friends, and maybe 50% are "useful" - i.e. "I really liked X because of Y. Also, you had a typo here and here, and I think you meant [this word] instead of [that word] in [this sentence]."

But then you go over to a fandom comm and post a piece. You get fifteen comments in one day. The internet has trained us that quantity of comments = popularity, and popularity = quality writing (otherwise they wouldn't read it, right?). Look though, at the quality of the *comments*. Very rarely do I get a quality *comment* on a fandom piece. I get stuff like this:

"OMG ILU SO HARD."
"Post more!"
"Great work!"
"ahahahahaha. Excellent."
"I so love your [fandom character]."

Great... but why? What made it good? and no, quoting me one line isn't helpful. It doesn't tell me *what made it good*. It doesn't tell me what I can improve (the latter being a species of comment practically *unknown* in any fandom). Unless I post something with *serious* problems, I'm not going to get anything *valuable* - positive or negative - because people aren't reading for the writing quality. They're reading to see representations of their favorite characters. And that's *fine*, but as far as helping me improve as a writer or letting me know *why* I'm good? It doesn't. It's an ego boost. That's it.

I think writing fandom stuff is *great* for the ego boost. I also think, though, that it can be addictive in a detrimental way. There's nothing quite like seeing the comment count on a single post hit the twenties, thirties, or forties. Pretty soon, you start writing *for the audience*. You start tweaking your writing to give them more of what they want, or you think of a scene and write it purely for the reaction you'll get. And that's fine, too, in moderation. But when it starts encroaching on the original stuff that *you* want to write, a story that's 100% yours and no one else's... you've lost something. For one thing, no one in the world is ever going to write the original fic in your head. It's yours and yours alone, and if you put it on the back burner to work on a fanfic, you may lose some of it. And if you do, it's gone... lost to the ether. Fanfic ideas will come back... you have media to jog your memory. Original ideas generally don't... never with their original vividness, anyway.

Writing original fic is *hard*. It's a lot harder to write than fanfic. And original fic is intimidating, too, because every detail has to be painted by you. So I understand the letdown of spending ten times as long on an original piece than on a fanfic, and getting no comments. It blows. But if you want to tell the story, then the biggest joy should still be *telling the story*... if you're not having fun while you're writing it - if there's no payoff just in watching it all come alive - then you have to decide how important the story really is, or if you're just torturing yourself.

Stephen King says in his book, On Writing, that a writer should write their first draft with the door closed... give yourself room for it to just be you and the world you've created. Further, he says that you write your second draft (or edit your first) with the door open - that is, when you're prepping a piece for "release," rewrite and edit with exactly *one* person in mind... your Ideal Reader. The person whom you know would most enjoy what you're doing. Imagine their expressions, and re-write/edit for maximum impact in that one person's mind.

Then set it off into the world, and what happens happens. If you get no comments, hey... sucks. I hear you. Don't fall into the trap of comments = good and no comments = bad. Pick yourself up and continue creating your world for the joy inherent in that.

(continued in next comment)

[maccaj.livejournal.com]

I'd also suggest that having an entirely separate journal for writing might be part of your problem... for some reason, people seem less likely to comment on a "writing journal" than if you just put your pieces in your own LJ and cut them. I don't even filter mine... anyone who doesn't want to read knows how to scroll, and if I filter them, someone who might otherwise have been intrigued will never see any of it at all.

And again, I don't have any problem with fandom... I'm in several myself. I just think fandom is a double-edged sword... it's easy to get the comments and feedback and know people are reading, but it's a lot harder to know whether your writing is actually *good* or if anyone even cares whether it's good. Original and fanfic are two very different worlds that serve very different purposes.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

I think part of it is that I don't...

I see writing differently than I lot of people I know - and a lot of writer's I've encountered.

As I said in my post, it is always about communication for me. Writing to languish is so wasteful in my eyes, which is what much of my original stuff does and I have such trouble getting past that.

It's not even, "Oh, I get comments" that makes me want to write fic. It's that it actually gets out there, disseminates into the population. I've never been popular and I never will be. I'm cool with that. That's not the point.

For me, papers, original fiction, meta on this blog, fanfiction, the really crappy poetry I used to write, my thesis - they all do the same thing. They're all expressions and facets of the same thing. They follow different rules, have different structure, develop different audiences, but they're all me dealing with my world and communicating the joys and problems of it.

If I can communicate that, then my writing is good enough for me.

If it's good enough to publish, then that's great. I'm communicating with a wider audience. If it's not, communicating with any audience - well, an audience who pays attention to what I'm saying - is the point.

I love my steampunk world. It's my problems and joys with the modern world and our views and social structures and lives filtered through medieval steampunk. I've never had something so dear to my heart. I have no doubt that once I overcome my Thesis That May Never Be, I will be in a place mentally to do the research necessary for it, but that may not be for months yet.

ETA: Also, when I talk about getting more feedback on my fanfiction: I'm a person who always has at least two betas for anything I post and, if it's something longer, usually three or four. While it's nice to get feedback - and I adore making people happy - I usually rely on the betas for the feedback of "You're doing this right and this wrong."

I tend to work best with workshopping writing as motivation, but, as I mentioned in my post, I've been lacking in that lately.

[maccaj.livejournal.com]

It sounds like your main problem is that you're trying to deal with the thesis right now and you need writing to be more of a "break" than a task, which is totally understandable. If you're not in a place where your original stuff feels like a break in and of itself (and research-heavy stuff never does, so I feel you there), then of course you'd gravitate to fandom, where everyone's playing by the same rules and has the same background knowledge... fandom's a quicker and easier escape, and it comes with a built in reader base, and I think those reasons pretty much comprise why most people write fanfic (myself included).

Re: writing as communication - sure, that's the ultimate goal. We all want to share our shiny cool world and it's shiny cool characters. But I'll say to you what I've said to samidha, just as food for thought: If your focus is "someday I will share/publish this piece, and that is my end goal, because without readers there is NO POINT OMG," chances are very good that said piece will never get finished. There's a lot of rejection and a lot of radio silence in the original fic world, as you know, and if your *goal* is "I want to have readers and know they're reading"... you'll always be frustrated, particularly with something that involves world-building and research and continuity that takes ages to put together. It's too much work for a "maybe," and everything is a maybe when it comes to original fic, whether you want it in the form of a published piece or a commented-on post. Your first reason has to be "I enjoy it." Your second reason can be "and I want others to enjoy it," but if the first isn't "*I* am enjoying this," you won't be writing at your best, and you won't have fun with the process, and if both those things are true, you won't want to stick with it (and who would, if it feels like just another assignment?).

I don't claim to be the best writer in the world, and I know my current original stuff would need heavy editing to make it publishable. (I've been published many times, so I, as a writer, am publishable, but my current stuff - even with edits, there's just not a market for it.) But knowing that *if* it's ever published, it would have to be self-published, and that when I post it, I'll be lucky to get three comments, doesn't make me one bit less motivated to write, because I adore my characters so much (and they won't shut up. And they gang up on me). That doesn't mean I'm a great writer, but it does spring from the fact that I'm not trying to write a thesis, I'm not in school, and my real life blows so my fictional world is a helluva lot more fun. What I'm getting at, I think, is that if writing isn't *fun*, look at the reasons - I think you've nailed it with the thesis/school thing, personally. If, when you're *not* stressing over those things, writing still isn't fun unless your end goal is sharing it, it's not that you can't write original fic... but it will feel like a slog more often than not, and fanfic will always be more appealing.

While it's nice to get feedback - and I adore making people happy - I usually rely on the betas for the feedback of "You're doing this right and this wrong."

Betas are great - I've got 3 or 4 in my pocket, too. They still miss things, though, and a comment can be useful without dealing with grammar or typos. Sometimes the biggest problems - the "you totally lost me here, I don't follow" ones, are found by someone who's not a regular beta, because the betas already know where you're coming from. Also, a comment can be useful without being negative... regarding my original fic, I'd rather have one "I really liked X because of Y," than 5 "OMG ILU"s.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

My focus is never "maybe I'll publish this someday." When I write, my focus is, "Wow. This is awesome. I should tell someone. Or write it down. Writing lets me have more words. Writing. Yes."

I write people stories as gifts when I'm short on money. I write stories for my relatives when they're sick. I write stories to read among friends and family when we get together. I write to commemorate important events. I write because my head is too full of ideas and I would explode if I didn't.

If I got published? That'd be dandy. But that's got nothing to do with why I write.

[maccaj.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry if I came across as such - that wasn't what I meant. The whole point of writing *is* to share it, for all of us. I just meant that if your focus is on the "getting to share it" part *while* you're still writing, it can make the original stuff feel a lot more difficult to write, because there's so much effort involved. I didn't mean to imply as though sharing isn't a valid reason for writing... I've just seen a *lot* of fantastic writers get so hooked on the sharing and so frustrated when they felt like they weren't getting anything in return, that they quit. And I think - personal opinion - that one of the ways to avoid that kind of burnout is to try to keep one's own enjoyment in the forefront while the piece is in progress. That's all.

[deccaboo.livejournal.com]

I agree with you in some respects. It's not necessarily easier to write fan fiction or fan-based work, but getting feedback is a cinch compared to getting feedback for original work.

I find that the only people who are in a position to read my original work are my RL friends and I think sometimes they are too conscious of my feelings to be critical in the way I would like. I'm fine if I know I've written a gem, and I can handle the praise then, but if I'm being praised for something I feel could be improved I tend to abandon the project because I don't think it will go anywhere. However, they make excellent betas for fanfic, because they know the characters as well as, or better than, I do and feel entitled to pull me up when I fall short in that arena.

I think that writing workshops always work out better when you do them in person. I've never really learnt anything by remote and a weblogish writing circle wouldn't work well for me. It might be ideal for you, particularly if you don't really have a Sci-fi friendly writing circle near you, and it's not a worthless endeavour, but instant feedback and criticism works best for me rather than vague net responses.

I don't think fanfiction is literature's bastard child; fanfiction authors aren't necessarily 13 year old girls too in love with Harry Potter/Edward Cullen/[insert current tween lust object here] to write properly or even care about plot and/or characterisation. You have to be extremely talented to continue the characterisation set out by someone else and accurately portray the character and settings. If you don't, another fan will jump on you and create wank! There are a great many talented fic writers out there, but there is still the prevailing myth that if you write fic you are either too lazy or too unimaginative to write your own original work, both of which are inaccurate.

I don't think I knew you had a writing-only journal otherwise I'd have checked it out by now, I'm sure!

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

If you friend it, I will be sure to friend you back. I don't have much on there at the moment, but when the steam punk gets up and running again, there will be regular updates.

[skye-princess.livejournal.com]

I can understand about your frustration concerning your original fic. maccaj in her comments summed up my feelings about fanfiction and original fic. I would add that writing should be something that you enjoy doing, not because you want to receive as much feedback as possible. I understand about how writing to you is a form of communication. Yet you should not worry too much about feedback. In some way, perhaps more subtle than you realize, your fic is communicating to the wider world. Right now you feel like it is languishing in a vacuum, but maybe someone will find it, read it, and then comment on it.

I will be glad to workshop with you on your original fic if you want. I took a fiction writing course from a published author sophomore year in high school. We would each write one 8-page story per week. One of the stories will be chosen for that week and we would provide feedback on it. I am not a writer but I enjoy reading and stories of any kind. Whatever help I can offer I will do so.

ETA: I am going to friend your writing journal so I can read what you have wrote so far. I am really looking forward to the Mongolian steampunk piece.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

Aaargh! I express myself badly

Feedback /=/ comments

Seriously, I would be miserable if that's what I did. The things I love most are what are commented on least and I am a-okay with that.

Feedback is... it's generating discussion. It's seeing my ideas in the world. It's about opening up an avenue of discussion, even if that avenue is never explored.

My original fiction isn't an avenue. It's a dirt road in backwoods Montana, overgrown with weeds in most places, and periodically with large trees and the occasional fallen boulder.

My fanfiction, on the other hand, is quite possibly a narrow alley on the edge a slum. Not that great, but certainly better used than the unpaved road of original fiction.

(To extend this metaphor, my meta would be one of those connector roads between the nice part of town and the shitty one and my academic papers would be on-ramps to the highway.)

[rugbybaby.livejournal.com]

Do you mind if I friend journeybysea and peek around? My opinion under all these fantastically long and eloquent responses to this post is just pretty much to write what you feel. I'm finally getting back to writing, have done only a few pieces of it over the past couple days, and am reminded about how much I missed it. It's been so long since I've worked upon anything original, not that my fandom stuff got anywhere past my own storylines.

I also wince at the idea of people turning away fantasy/sci-fi stories. I wince heavily, if only because I think I've finally found my genre and need to learn more.

I've nothing different to add, except that I can understand why you'd be frustrated at having so little feedback. I don't really know how to give constructive feedback, which is why I'm going to try to force myself to start writing book reviews to get into the habit. The only way I'll get better about it is if I do it. But anyway, I'd love to read anything you've written, and though I feel like lately I've been terrible at following through on things, I'd do my best to give honest and constructive feedback. I know the fact that I don't really fancy slash is inhibiting. Maybe I need to get over that and just try it.

ANYWAY. Good luck with the writing.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

Friend away. I'll be sure to friend you back.

And... IDK, maybe I'll post what I have of the zombeiwerewolfthing now. Yes, I think I will.

[rugbybaby.livejournal.com]

Yay!

I WILL READ IT. That all sounds like warm cozy reading for later tonight.

[maccaj.livejournal.com]

Just for the record, I'd be happy to read your stuff (and I promise I'll comment). And again, I'm sorry if I came off as argumentative or whatever... I truly think writing is a very personal endeavor and whatever works for you, works for you. I don't get much opportunity to discuss the nuts and bolts of writing, so sometimes when I get on the subject I end up not being as clear as I'd like. And today's kind of a difficult day, so I probably should have stuck to my own sandbox.

Anyway... would love to read your stuff.

[larienelengasse.livejournal.com]

Here's my two cents. Writing is different for everyone. There are some people who need to be left alone while they work it out, there are others who need feedback and or critique. My personal belief is that unless you already know who you are as a writer, in other words, your writer persona is fully developed and it's just a matter of expression and output, writing is a community activity that is vital to helping you grow and learn who that person is. Even then, the community can help you keep growing, because, let's face it, we never do stop. Writing is, at its heart, communication, and you can't, as you've said, communicate in a vacuum. Maybe I feel this way because it's how I've been indoctrinated to feel based on my training to teach writing, but I don't think so. Feedback and critique are not the same thing. Feedback is generous and kind and meant to express gratitude for sharing your work. Critique is meant to help you do what you do better, plain and simple. You are looking for an exchange, a back and forth communication that is more akin to critique, where you can learn and teach both. That's what a writing community is, at its best. If I thought that I could at all honor a commitment throughout the year to be a sounding board, I'd offer, but I know that once the term starts and I start teaching again, I will be hit and miss. Of course, if you want to, you can always virtually knock on my door and ask me to read something and talk with you about it.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

I'll let ldragoon know about the writing group!

And-- you probably know this already-- but try different magazines? The biggest issue with getting published isn't whether you write good stuff, it's whether it'll sell (which is mostly for books, admittedly, but magazines also want stuff that fits their own parameters). Great books will get rejected while schlock like Twilight knock-offs get the green light because that's what people are buying. Small comfort, I know, but it helps me sleep at night when I'm not getting bitter over the lowest common denominator tastes of the American public.

I really feel you on the comforting. There's nothing quite like posting an original piece you poured your heart and soul into and hear "that was nice" versus people dissecting your fanfic into tiny, tiny pieces about what worked and what didn't. I mean, I love "that was nice" but for original work especially I need to know what was nice! "Oh, just... the way you wrote it."

(I am so with you on the research heavy stuff. I need to do a lot for pirates and it just feels endless, so I've reached that place where I write first, research later, or else I'll never stop).

[skye-princess.livejournal.com]

I think I understand what you're saying now. I agree with you in that a writer's group (or really any sort of discussion-based group) is a great place for you to showcase your original fic. Again I would be happy to discuss your work with you. I might not be able to give you the type of critique that a beta would, but I will certainly talk with you about any aspect of your story.

BTW, I know this is off-topic, but did you receive your gift from me? It should have come in a box from Amazon. Just curious...

[skye-princess.livejournal.com]

Just to let you know, I friended your writing journal.

[brni.livejournal.com]

Community is really important - not "key" per se, as there's many folks who hid away and wrote alone and did amazing things - but really important to helping center and improve us as writers, and to provide the support we need when we hit the inevitable "OMFGeverythingIwriteiscrap" stage.

I'm still finding my way into groups of people who can give the sort of support and feedback I need to help me grow as a writer, but they exist.

Another way to get feedback is to expressly solicit it from editors when you submit a story. Many editors have a policy of not offering feedback, largely because there are enough people out there who do things like - start arguing, become abusive, post the letters on the internet, etc. But some of them will make exceptions if you ask in your cover letter/cover email: "I am always looking for ways to improve my writing, so any feedback or advice is much appreciated." Even a single line of personal response is often very useful.

I don't often read your fanfic, pretty much because my taste doesn't tend to run toward fanfic. I do enjoy your original fiction, particularly the Mongolian steampunk one. So much of our worldview is so anglo-american and western european slanted that we really don't have much out there representing the massive parts of our world and history that don't fit that mold. Mongol world domination is not much of a stretch, and it's really refreshing to see something that explores that.