Sam vs Dean and Why It Doesn't Work: An Approach to Character Analysis

[chasingtides]

Here's where I admit that while I definitely like Sam and Dean equally - they both bring important elements to the show - I can, on a base level, understand Dean more. I'm a person whose instinct, when I see a problem, whether it's a hurting friend or something more physical, is to fix it. I also want to protect everyone I like from ever being hurt, ever. I'm a twin, but I often, especially when we were younger, took the protective, older sibling role. (I remember grabbing the back of his shirt and keeping him from walking in front of cars. )

However, as much as I understand Dean on a really basic level, I like Sam, too. Sam is Dean's foil in a lot of ways. And neither would be who they are - yes, even now in season four - or make the decisions they make without one another's influence.

I've seen a particular phenomenon in the Supernatural fandom - among Sam fans, among Dean fans, even among fans who profess to love both. It happens in other fandoms with other characters as well, but people seem to be particularly vehement about it in Supernatural. They will demonise one brother in order to canonise the other. I recently had my inbox filled with LJ comments about this and I realised that it drives me INSANE.

It does not work.

Let's get something out of the way first.

Sam is selfish.

Dean is overly protective of his family, small children, and people (in that order). He comes in last.

Yes. Sam is selfish. He is. Hands down. Yes. Dean does have slightly messed up priorities.

Dean having messed up priorities does not mean that he does not have a sense of self. Sam being selfish doesn't mean he doesn't care about Dean.

These are called flaws. Good characters, like people, have them. Either exaggerating the flaws of the other character or ignoring the flaws of your favored character are only going to make you look like an ass (and drive me insane, because you should totally care what I think).

It's important, before you go off on how season four Sam is a selfish bastard addict or Dean is a weak-minded follower of orders wherever they come from, to look at how the characters function. Many books, shows, and movies that deal with other worlds or crazy science fiction or what-have-you have characters that function as windows into the new information. They allow the audience to understand and follow this new information that, presumably, everyone else already knows. After all, I don't need to explain the internet to my best friend, but if I were in a book from the nineteenth century, it might pay to have a period character asking me what it was. In Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere, Richard Mayhew functions as our "window." He is unfamiliar with London Below and asks the questions that will inform the audience. In Dr Who, we have the Doctor's companions. In Torchwood, we have Gwen, who is as new to Torchwood as we are. In the first three seasons, but especially in season one, Sam functions as our "window" into hunting. Nominally, he grew up in a hunting family, but, for the most part, he's led a fairly normal life. He has many of the same problems with it that we would. In the fourth season, Dean is our "window" into the world of demons and angels, struggling with many of the issues that we would.

From here, I'll be taking John Winchester's Journal and the Rising Son comics as an addendum to canon - canon unless they directly conflict with something on the show.

Taking the journal, the comics, and A Very Supernatural Christmas (3.08) into consideration, as well as some of Sam's commentary, especially through the first season, Sam and Dean had drastically different childhoods for all that they're brothers who grew up in the same household. (I am taking a fairly conservative view of their childhood here - the one that I see as having been directly depicted in the aforementioned sources.)

For everything else, Sam's childhood is very protected. Yes, we see in After School Special (4.13) that Sam deals with being a new kid and school bullies - and that he knows how to fight - but we know from A Very Supernatural Christmas (3.08) that he didn't even know the supernatural existed until he was eight. This allows Sam to see things in a black-and-white manner, something that, despite everything in Bloodlust (2.03), Dean doesn't do.
This is actually a great example of the divergence of points of view - and why saying Dean and Sam should be the same is a fatally flawed argument.

The example of the gun from the pilot is a good example of this: Sam is nine years old. He's afraid of the thing in his closet. John inspects the closet. There's nothing there. However, John knows, all too well, that evil things hide in closets. He is also very aware that evil things are after his youngest son, though Sam, a child, is unaware of this. John has to make a decision. He chooses that protection from evil is more important than innocence because it might be that his son's life is in the balance. He gives Sam a .45.

Sam finds this highly problematic, even as a mostly adult character in the pilot. Sam is used to a relatively (this being a key word) normal life. He goes to school. He gets good grades. His teachers talk to him about getting into college. He wants to escape his messed up home life where his father and brother disappear to go kill things no one else believes in and come back hurt. He can't understand why they hurt themselves over and over again for people who don't care. He feels rootless and unhappy and he is very much a teenager. Giving a .45 to a nine year old, to Sam, only shows how his family is messed up and has the wrong priorities. He wants to feel safe - away from people who collect weapons and are hurt often. For Sam, either you are safe or you are not safe. This is true even in season four. Giving a gun to a nine year old means you are not safe.

Dean does not see this as a problem. Dean remembers his mother being killed by a demon and his father totally losing it. Dean remembers what it was like to have a home and the pain of it all falling apart. He watched John get it back together, as much as John ever did, by focusing on the hunt. Dean learned to shoot when he was six. When he's eleven, he's a good enough shot and well enough versed in hunting, that even the over-protective John is willing to leave Sam with Dean while a Shtriga is on the loose. This is Dean's life. When he's twelve, Dean kills a man, another hunter, to protect Sam.

To Dean, giving a nine year old a .45 is a protective measure. It makes sense. Dean has seen what happens when you don't take protective measures. Dean's seen the death and pain. Dean doesn't want to be "normal" because he was, once. Dean knows, intimately, the pain of what happens when that's torn away. For Dean, there's no "safe" and "not safe." There's "protecting yourself and those you love from things that will hurt you" and "being a lazy ass."

For Dean, his mother was taken from him by these supernatural things. He has motivation to stay in this life. He also has motivation (motivation Sam doesn't have) to need to keep his family together. He's seen what happens when things fall apart and it isn't pretty.

Sam sees things in black and white, which was a problem in season one and is a problem now. Currently - his end result is good so the means are justified (ie because it's not 100% pure evil, it must be 100% pure good). In season one, it meant that he could only find John, other things were distractions. For all that he's the human with demon blood, Sam is blind to gray areas - and blind to compromise. (I admit, I'm one of the fans who has serious, serious problems with Sam drinking demon blood. I think that it's darker than anything Dean, John, and Mary did because it's much less spontaneous and he's very much choosing to use it.)

Dean is the protector which, like Sam, is his strength and his downfall. He's known more than Sam for most of Sam's life. He knew about hunting when he was just a little kid. (If you take the journal and comics into canon, he's known since John did.) He knew that Sam might go darkside before Sam did. But he also doesn't know when to quit. It's one of the major problems of season four Dean - he's understandably broken by Hell but he doesn't know how to step down. (When you mix that with Sam's black-and-white world view of "Either he can do or he can't," I think Dean got more fucked up than necessary.)

Sam's black-and-white thinking is part of what makes him a strong hunter and a strong character. He can make definitive decisions. In Scarecrow (1.11), he can make the decision to go after John because finding his father, avenging his girlfriend, is definitely more important that saving strangers. Dean's protective nature keeps him from this. He feels the need to protect. In Scarecrow, this means that saving strangers takes a higher priority than going on a cross country wild goose chase. Dean is more likely to be torn up over a decision, especially if he has to choose between people to save. Sam sees the end result and if it's good, the whole issue is good. If the result is bad, then it's all bad.

They're both got their problems (huge, honking problems). They've both got their strengths (huge, honking strengths). But really saying that one problem is a virtue and the other is damning just doesn't work.

Comments

[crimsonkitty88.livejournal.com]

Boys. I do love them both, no matter their issues.

[daniidebrabant.livejournal.com]

*CLAPS* *JUST FRICKING CLAPS*

[jameserin.livejournal.com]

i love them both, i really do. i just don't like their choices sometimes.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Sometimes their choices are shit. (Why does Sam think drinking demon blood is an okay thing to do? WHYYYYY?) But... aargh. Mostly I'm really sick of running into Sam girls who say Dean doesn't have a sense of self at all. (No sense of self preservation, yes. No sense of self, no.)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

What a great thing to read. I, too, feel like the characters are so intertwined and constantly effecting each other it's impossible to just point to one and say he's "the problem." Or even more of a problem. They're two separate people who have different ways of seeing the world and dealing with the world who also have different experiences. They both make sense to me, which is enough for me with them.

[blahbaby.livejournal.com]

ITA!!!!

Hah, but on a serious note, the only thing that gave me pause is this:

He can make definitive decisions. In Scarecrow (1.11), he can make the decision to go after John because finding his father, avenging his girlfriend, is definitely more important that saving strangers. Dean's protective nature keeps him from this. He feels the need to protect.

Jessica had a level of importance for Sam, that she didn't have for Dean, so it's hard to compare. Dean hadn't lost the love of his life yet. Until Sam died in season two, Bobby told him something big was going down, end of the world big and Dean was all LET IT END. He wasn't too concerned with saving people then. And that reminds me of the black-and-white POV too, first two seasons it's Dean with the black-and-white POV. It's supernatural they kill it, there's no shades of gray for him. OMG! Dean and Sam are morphing into each other!

Good meta! It made me think and maybe I thought too much here...

I love them both, but I have to admit Sam is trying to win me over with his shirtless scenes this season. Sneaky.

[datenshiblue.livejournal.com]

Jessica had a level of importance for Sam, that she didn't have for Dean, so it's hard to compare. Dean hadn't lost the love of his life yet. Until Sam died in season two, Bobby told him something big was going down, end of the world big and Dean was all LET IT END. He wasn't too concerned with saving people then. And that reminds me of the black-and-white POV too, first two seasons it's Dean with the black-and-white POV. It's supernatural they kill it, there's no shades of gray for him. OMG! Dean and Sam are morphing into each other!

Yes, this.

Thank you.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I portrayed this badly. I don't think what Sam did in Scarecrow was a bad thing at all. I think Sam made the sane, logical choice. I think Dean saved lives - but I also think that if they'd found John earlier, the end of season one wouldn't have gone down the way it did and the soul-selling dominoes wouldn't have fallen.

Dean likes to be able to save people - specific people. I don't think Dean's big on abstract ideals, like saving the world. He likes, I think, to be able to say, "I protected Michael and Jo and Sam and Ellen." Generic concept of people? I feel like that's different.

[datenshiblue.livejournal.com]

I appreciate that you made an effort to present a balanced view, but unfortunately, you failed.

By making the statement Sam sees things in black and white you simply presented a fandom conception as if it were fact.

If Sam only saw black and white, how do you explain his understanding and defense of Lenore and her group? Sam's world view allows for shades of gray. A black and white view is not necessary to be able to make definitive decisions.

A black and white world view is not necessary to discern good and evil, right from wrong.

Sam's a more complex character than you describe. I don't have to demonize Dean to state that. I don't even have to bring Dean up at all. It's so.

However, for the sake of argument, how about your other premise: Sam is selfish. You state it as fact, without much to support it.

Guess what? I happen not to agree. Neither your saying so nor a hundred other fan opinions that say the same affect what I get out of watching the show and how I understand the characters.

I don't have to demonize Dean to state that I don't see Sam's actions as selfish.

You state that Sam's childhood was very protected.

I have a different view.

Nothing Dean could do, no matter how hard he tried, could protect Sam from the fear and isolation of their nomadic lives. Not knowing about monsters until he was eight years old did not supply him magically with a feeling of security and safety.

As children, we perceive even when we do not know. When there are secrets in a household, when a parent tells us not to speak the truth to other adults, when we are shushed and told not to ask about a missing parent, none of these things provides safety and security.

You feel Sam had a relatively 'normal' upbringing. I see something different. I see an upbringing that was strikingly similar to my own, the child of an alcoholic single parent. I know if wasn't secure. I know fear that I had no proper understanding of dogged me throughout it. You paint a picture of Sam's childhood that shows little understanding, and therefore your read of his motivations as an adult is probably flawed.

You made a noble effort, but your bias is still showing, whether you recognize it or not.

Now tell me, is it demonizing Dean to ask the question when Dean made his deal for Sam's life, was that selfish?

I haven't said Dean has no sense of self. I feel quite the contrary, that he has a very solid sense of self. He may not like the self he sees, but he knows who he is. And he makes choices that are not all protective, nor all altruistic. And as you said, that makes for a real human being.

Bringing angels into the mix with demons in Season 4 has just made it easier for fans with a bias to align one character as "good" and the other as "becoming evil". This, in spite of the fact that the show has made it clear that angels are just another kind of supernatural creature, and there is no clear 'goodness' as humans understand it, on either side.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

I said relatively as a key word. I am comparing Dean and Sam's childhood in this meta. This means that Sam's childhood is normal relative to Dean's (not to mine, not to yours, not to the man in the moon's).

Selfishness is not an inherently bad thing either. Selfishness is important, actually. It's a survival instinct. Sam is willing to put his needs ahead of others - a trait that Dean, tragically, does not share. This is a very good thing. If Sam is between a rock and a hard place, he knows enough to save himself.

I don't think it was a bad thing that Sam went to Standford. It was both a selfish and a good decision. It was good *because* it was selfish. He knew he needed to put his needs first and he did.

I think Lenore is a striking example of his black and white views. The end result - no hurt humans - meant that they were good. They are still, technically, monsters. Yet they do good. It's definitely a gray situation, but when I watch the episode, I feel that Sam sees it in black and white - he sees them as good.

Again, seeing in black-and-white is not a bad thing. It is just a world view.

Both characters are infinitely more complex than I show here. But if I were to show all of their complexities, I would have four seasons of a television show to write, not a meta on LiveJournal. Here I am boiling them down to what I see as bare bones.

I think you are reading into my meta what isn't there. I love Sam. He's wonderful because I don't understand him instinctively - he makes me think and I love that in a character. It is through looking at him this way that I continue to love him in season four even though I hate much of what he is doing - because I can see that the *why* is noble even if the what is not.

ETA: Sam definitely has his protective moments. Dean has his selfish moments. They wouldn't be their full fledged, three dimensional characters otherwise. I am saying I see these as their primary characteristics. This does not mean they do not have secondary and tertiary characteristics, nor that those are not important.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

Also, after having some time to think about this, I'd like to clarify another thing:

I'm not saying that if you disagree with me you're demonising Sam or Dean.

What sparked the whole honking meta was seeing both sides do it. Part of this meta is taking what each side says and showing that it's not the horrible, no-good, low-down character trait that they say it is. Maybe I was terribly unclear in my presentation.

[hpaa.livejournal.com]

Excellent Meta

[hearseeno.livejournal.com]

I think that, given how much he's talked about wanting to play complex and contradictory characters, somewhere out there Jared is rubbing his hands together and cackling with glee at the strong feelings his performance is generating.

The fact that the same character can elicit such a broad range of reactions (and sometimes in the same person) is, I think, a testament to the quality of the work Jared and Jensen put out there in the world.

And I so totally agree with you about the *facepalm*-worthy nature of demonizing one brother as a backdrop against which to prove the worth of the other.

[jude-judith82.livejournal.com]

I'm not going to front I probably like Dean's character slightly more than Sam mostly b/c I can comprehend Dean more being an older sibling and having that protective instinct when it comes to my younger siblings. Any way. I just wanted to say Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for this post. This is something that needed to be said. All the infighting is what makes it difficult for me to get all in this fandom. This is show I've been watching since it first aired but I have never felt truly part of it thank you again for this post. Kick ass.

[impulsiveanswer.livejournal.com]

Very interesting meta. I'm an unapologetic Samgirl, but I like Dean in a goofy-older-brother way; and I can see the good and bad qualities in both. It drives me nuts when people judge one character solely on his good qualities while judging the other solely on his flaws (I do admit I can be more aggressive about pointing out Dean's flaws just because there are so many people out there who judge Sam only by the bad and Dean only by the good).

I admit, I'm one of the fans who has serious, serious problems with Sam drinking demon blood. I think that it's darker than anything Dean, John, and Mary did because it's much less spontaneous and he's very much choosing to use it.

I don't agree with this. Don't get me wrong - I'm not all "yea demon blood!" However, the fact is that all four Winchesters tried to make a deal with a demon and Sam was the only one whose deal was rejected. He had months to stew in his guilt, loneliness, and grief (on top of a year of knowing Dean was going to Hell for him and failing at every attempt to save him) while for Mary, John, or Dean it was over in a matter of minutes/days; comparing a decision made under those circumstances with a spontaneous demon deal isn't really fair. I think it's more comparable to John's decision about how to raise his boys after Mary died: John made the deliberate choice to completely ruin whatever chances Dean and Sam may have had to live a normal life. Sure, he had some good reasons for doing so...but then again, Sam had some good reasons for the demon blood too.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

Oh man.

Okay, I'll explain.

I hate Dean's deal, too. And I'm not really on one side or the other on Mary's deal, but I found Mary kissing Samuel's body to be really creep-tastic. And I *get* John's deal - he was trying to stop season four Sam from happening.

I have a lot of problems with Sam drinking blood. It's not just that he's drinking blood from a dead girl's body. It's a visceral, gut issue with the idea of drinking somebody else's blood. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but it's definitely a gut reaction that if someone's drinking blood, they've gone deeply, deeply off the wrong end of the pool.

Part of it might have to do with what blood represents. It's life, of course - drinking away a dead person's life is wrong thinking, but it what's there. But, having been born in the 80's, I also grew up knowing the blood is dangerous. Blood can kill. "Tainted" blood destroys the very life it should be sustaining (HIV/AIDS). The drinking of blood can also be taken as a perversion of the Eucharist (I'm Catholic born-and-raised). The blood of Jesus washes away our sins, but the blood of a demon - well, that would, logically, be damnation, yes? According to the Christian Bible, blood is forbidden, so drinking it would be an issue - especially from another person (consuming another human being) never mind a demon (to consume the dead).

Selling your soul has a longer cultural background of being okay - selling something to the dark man of the crossroads has a pre-Christian history in both northern Europe and African, the traditions that likely evolved into the American hoodoo culture (in which, within the culture, you aren't selling your soul at all). We have sympathetic people doing it.

There's also a greater knowledge of revenge as a good thing. It's neither here nor there with John- the Journal implies that whether John had chosen to stay in Lawrence or made the decisions he did, their lives would have been fucked up. People and demons were after Sam since he was a little boy - ready to kidnap him, to destroy John and Dean. I'd be doubtful if John and Dean would have been as functional if they'd lost Sam to a demon after Mary had been killed by one. Sam, if he'd been taken by demons as a boy, certainly wouldn't have had a normal life.

[datenshiblue.livejournal.com]

comparing a decision made under those circumstances with a spontaneous demon deal isn't really fair

Thank you for explaining this.

I definitely agree.

[andromakhe001.livejournal.com]

He had months to stew in his guilt, loneliness, and grief

No he didn't. Ruby showed up right after he tried to sell his soul an was rejected - he did a that a week after Dean died.

He actually gave up trying to find ways to save Dean(which I don't consider a bad thing, it would have been a waste of time and it also would not have been healthy for him) fairly quickly. He certainly did not need to focus on revenge though.

That has always been a major flaw with Sam, that need for revenge and despite going through it in Season 1, despite the Trickster trying to teach him a lesson in Mystery Spot, despite Dean advising more than once since the beginning of season 1 that it was not a good thing - Sam plowed headlong into it.

That shows an inability to be self-reflective, which interestingly enough Dean, who is often put down as the "cloddish" one, has shown himself to be. He often is shown thinking about the wider consequences of his actions, what it might mean. In Devil's Trap, in Bloodlust, at various times in Season 3, etc.

Dean screwed up, he made the Deal, but he didn't continue compounding that error, for example, by saying "screw it, I'm going to Hell anyway, might as well do things the easy way, I don't need to care about what I do, etc". He knew he did something that was not good, even if he'd have done it again, but he tried in the aftermath to mitigate the effects of that decision. Doesn't mean he always made the right decisions with how he dealt with everything, but he didn't really compound the error.

Sam on the other hand, has compounded one error with another, and another, and another which is why he is in the position he is in now. It shows a lack of flexibility. An inability to shift course. To say I made one mistake but I dont' have to keep making that mistake or I don't have to stay on the road that mistake led me to, I can turn around, I can turn off here, I can take a detour.

So instead Sam tries to say he didn't make a mistake at all, in fact he made the best decision possible under the circumstances and if that's where the road is going well then it must be the right road to be on.

That doesn't mean Sam is bad but it is his MAJOR character flaw and the show has set it out as such, I feel.

metameta :)

[supernarttu.livejournal.com]

Hiya. I liked this, I don't agree to all, but I get your point about this sam vs. dean thing which I HATE. :)

I love both boys and I GET them. I can't and won't judge them because I understand them... They are both excellent(!!) and so human characters that fascinate me to no end :) They make mistakes and the way they suffer for each other is just heartbreaking... :( And I love every bit of it :)

There are no other tv shows (at the moment....or maybe ever, who knows) to me that can even compare to this.
I might get Sam a little better (maybe because I'm the baby of the family, having my family expect certain things from me which I didn't always agree on...blah blah LOL) but Sam just captivates me and Jared is my god LOL That said, I love Dean, have from the start and he is the other half of the most prettiest heart I've seen. Jensen rocks my heart too by the way :)

I just get so sick and tired of the constant judgement and bad mouthing of the boys... and Kripke.
It sometimes makes me want to leave this whole fandom... but then there are people who just love the show and try to see the both sides of the story cause there are (and never has been IMO) just 'one view' in this show. It's family and choice&consequence at it's core and I love that it's not easy, happy, dancing on roses and candy canes life. God, I love this show... *heart*

P.s. sorry about the rant... got too excited :D But my point, thanks :)

Re: metameta :)

[supernarttu.livejournal.com]

crap, a type-o but meant to say
there is NO (and never has been imo) 'one view' in this show...

sorry... :)

[starbright73.livejournal.com]

Here ffrom the newsletter
*giggle* I think I see the boys completely different from you. I see Dean as the very black/white person. He hates everything supernatural, has even said so in plenty episodes, while Sam was willing to et the Vampires in Fresh blood go. Even in Croatoan, Sam says it's supposed to be hard, it's supposed to make them think and make the right decisions. So I really don't see Sam being black and white at all. Not when it comes to others. But when it comes to himself, oh yeah.

And the selfish thing? The most selfish act of all was Dean resurrecting Sam because he couldn't go on alone and then asking Sam to do just that, and live by rules that Dean set up without having walked even a step mile in Sam's shoes. Which comes down to Dean having the exact same hypocrisy as Sam does, it just comes forth in a different manner because the POV is and has been uniquely Dean's this season, bar a few scenes.

Now we see Dean's crazy priorities in Sam. He too is selling his soul by drinking demon blood. Why? It's rather clear to me, he wants the demon that killed his brother dead and gone and he'll take any measure to get that done. Selling his soul and going evil is nothing for him at this point. Just like saving Sam's life was nothing for Dean when he did. Same coin, different sides. Both acts are just as selfish, but Kripke is intentionally making it look like one side is worse than the other.

I don't know if it's intentional, but I sure hope so. Because if it's Kripke's intention to paint one character black and the other white, Supernatural is essentially a soap.

[datenshiblue.livejournal.com]

Even in Croatoan, Sam says it's supposed to be hard, it's supposed to make them think and make the right decisions.

Good example.

Same coin, different sides. Both acts are just as selfish, but Kripke is intentionally making it look like one side is worse than the other.

This, very definitely, this.

And for my part? I've suspected for a long time it was a fake out.

I'm very worried about Dean. I don't think his alignment with the angels is going to end up being a good thing for him.

[fahrbot.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to say I really enjoyed this. I've had a lot of problems with the decisions Sam has made this season, but it's important to remember where they're born from, and you laid out his path quite nicely.

[ace-and-sep.livejournal.com]

I admit, I'm one of the fans who has serious, serious problems with Sam drinking demon blood. I think that it's darker than anything Dean, John, and Mary did because it's much less spontaneous and he's very much choosing to use it.

I'm curious how anything Sam, John, or Mary have done could be darker than torturing souls in Hell for ten years and enjoying it.

I admit, I recently read all the Sookie Stackhouse novels so it takes more than a little consensual blood-drinking to shock me, but I really am confused as to why Dean's dark actions in Hell aren't more disturbing to you as all the other hi-jinks his screwed-up family have gotten up to.

[chasingtides.livejournal.com]

I've covered this in other comments but: Drinking blood is a major cultural taboo, for a variety of reasons. It's one that resonates with a variety of people. (It's one of the reasons vampires - until recently - were deeply frightening and often still are.)

If I knew more about Dean's actions in hell, beyond "I hurt people," I'd probably be reacting to that, too. I was more referencing the deals that Mary, John, and Dean made. That should have been more clear in my comment. (FYI, I actually think that some of John actions in the Journal were worse than anything Sam's done. But it's not on the show, nor does it have to do with his deal.)

I do hate the idea of what Dean has done - but I have no idea what it was. I *wish* we knew more, but that doesn't look to be in the cards. I'd like to see them on a more equal footing.

[eternal-dolor.livejournal.com]

You have very nice insights and made logical, valid points. It was an interesting read. Thank you for sharing

[(Anonymous)]

Appreciated your meta. I don't completely agree with how you analyze Dean and Sam (i.e. I don't beleive that Sam sees things in black and white). I feel that the way that you set up your argument unintentionally screws Sam in a negative light, more so than Dean, which kinda undermines your whole point and unfortunately leads to more Sam v.s. Dean argument.

However, I agree with you that they both got huge honking strength and huge honking problems :)

Like you say, Sam and Dean are so intertwined in each other's life that you can't talk about one without mention the others. Although Sam and Dean are capable of making their own decisions and choices and thus are themselves responsible for their choices, they do not make those choices in a vaccuum. It takes two to tango. It takes two to build a relationship and to tear it apart.

Yumi

[the-other-sandy.livejournal.com]

But really saying that one problem is a virtue and the other is damning just doesn't work.

I agree. It drives me crazy when fans of either brother claim they love that brother for how flawed and real he is...until you actually dare to point out one of his flaws. Then it's a fangirl dogpile to defend him from the very suggestion that he's not perfect.