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This is all vaguely coming from things I've been trying to figure out for my Big Bang, so bear with me if it's not so great at coherency.
We know that Sam's got some awesome psychic powers and that he got them when Azazel dripped his blood into his mouth. We also know that he appears to have powers that the demons on the show (Meg, Lilith, Ruby, Alastair) don't have - seeing into the future, pulling demons out of host bodies, telekinesis.
The characters on the show have shown that they believe that Sam's powers are demonic in origin and we fen have, from what I've seen, gone along with this theory. (I, too, am complicit. I belong to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
sammessiah, where Sam is Demon Jesus all the time, and have written fic from that view.)
However, I would like to host a new idea: Sam's powers are angelic.
Now, even if they aren't angelic in the way that Castiel and Uriel are angelic (though I will argue for that in a moment), I will hold firmly that they are not demonic in the way that Lilith, Meg, and Ruby are demonic. If Sam's powers are demonic in type or origin, it's on a whole new playing field.
We've learned a fair bit about Hell in the past two seasons. People become demons when they're stuck down there for too long. Ruby was once human. Alastair was, presumably, once human (after all, he's made at least one reference to WWII). Lilith, everyone's favorite Big Bad, was once Adam's first wife, if we're going by traditional mythology. They're all human.
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that fallen angels, though they clearly have a place in Supernatural mythology, aren't in Hell. Lucifer clearly isn't in Hell. Azazel, Sam's second "father," wasn't in Hell. Ruby, who had spent enough time in Hell to become a demon, was terrified of Castiel because she'd never seen an angel before the beginning of season four. Hell is, for Supernatural's purposes, other people. People turn people into demons. (Now isn't that depressing?)
However, Azazel dripped his blood into baby Sam's mouth. Azazel is a Grigori - a Watcher, from the same rank of angel (according to certain theologians - obvious this is all dependent) as Uriel. Azazel appears in Leviticus, where the Israelites in the desert give two goats - one to God and on to Azazel - for atonement for their sins. He also features heavily in the Book of Enoch, where he teaches humanity the art of war and sleeps with human women, producing the Nephilim, a monstrous half-human half-angel race that also appear in Genesis, specifically in the story of Noah.
Sam's powers come from the Scapegoat, from a fallen angel. He is not already partially turned demon. He is something more than human - something more than Ruby or Lilith or Meg or Alastair. I would argue that Azazel's blood brings him close to Uriel and Castiel (or Azazel and Lucifer) than to Ruby or Lilith. He's got angel blood, even if that angel was fallen.
Sam powers are different than demon powers, that we've seen. All of the psychic kids were different from demons, actually. Sam can see the future, just like Ava could. Andy and Ansem could command people with their voices. Max had telekinesis and Lily could kill with her touch. Scott could harness electricity. Jake had super strength and developed Andy and Ansem's power as well.
These are pretty specific powers - and nothing like anything we've seen demons do. Demons seem to have some telekinesis powers, but, at least to my eyes, it appears to manifest differently.
Beyond this, I'd like to bring Anna into the equation. Anna, too, was angel and human. She also manifested her powers in a way that is similar to the psychic kids - she didn't know what was going on, she didn't understand, but under pressure she could save herself. When she regained her grace and blasted everyone, her eyes went yellow.
And Uriel thought she was an abomination who needed to be destroyed. (Hint: Who else does Uriel think is an abomination who needs to be destroyed?)
I think it would be kind of amazing if it turns out that Sam's powers are truly angelic and he's some kind of bastard half-breed - that Azazel found a way to get around the Nephilim problem. It would be truly ironic if, after working with Ruby, a demon, and trying to fight his powers because they were evil, it turned out that Sam has more in common with Castiel and Dean has more in common with Ruby.
In any case, I want to know where the fallen angels hang out. It's obviously not Hell. Where's Lucifer? Did Azazel have buddies? Is yellow the color of an angel's eyes? How did Azazel drip his own blood into Sam's mouth - do high ranking (fallen) angels get their own bodies a la Good Omens?
We know that Sam's got some awesome psychic powers and that he got them when Azazel dripped his blood into his mouth. We also know that he appears to have powers that the demons on the show (Meg, Lilith, Ruby, Alastair) don't have - seeing into the future, pulling demons out of host bodies, telekinesis.
The characters on the show have shown that they believe that Sam's powers are demonic in origin and we fen have, from what I've seen, gone along with this theory. (I, too, am complicit. I belong to
sammessiah, where Sam is Demon Jesus all the time, and have written fic from that view.)However, I would like to host a new idea: Sam's powers are angelic.
Now, even if they aren't angelic in the way that Castiel and Uriel are angelic (though I will argue for that in a moment), I will hold firmly that they are not demonic in the way that Lilith, Meg, and Ruby are demonic. If Sam's powers are demonic in type or origin, it's on a whole new playing field.
We've learned a fair bit about Hell in the past two seasons. People become demons when they're stuck down there for too long. Ruby was once human. Alastair was, presumably, once human (after all, he's made at least one reference to WWII). Lilith, everyone's favorite Big Bad, was once Adam's first wife, if we're going by traditional mythology. They're all human.
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that fallen angels, though they clearly have a place in Supernatural mythology, aren't in Hell. Lucifer clearly isn't in Hell. Azazel, Sam's second "father," wasn't in Hell. Ruby, who had spent enough time in Hell to become a demon, was terrified of Castiel because she'd never seen an angel before the beginning of season four. Hell is, for Supernatural's purposes, other people. People turn people into demons. (Now isn't that depressing?)
However, Azazel dripped his blood into baby Sam's mouth. Azazel is a Grigori - a Watcher, from the same rank of angel (according to certain theologians - obvious this is all dependent) as Uriel. Azazel appears in Leviticus, where the Israelites in the desert give two goats - one to God and on to Azazel - for atonement for their sins. He also features heavily in the Book of Enoch, where he teaches humanity the art of war and sleeps with human women, producing the Nephilim, a monstrous half-human half-angel race that also appear in Genesis, specifically in the story of Noah.
Sam's powers come from the Scapegoat, from a fallen angel. He is not already partially turned demon. He is something more than human - something more than Ruby or Lilith or Meg or Alastair. I would argue that Azazel's blood brings him close to Uriel and Castiel (or Azazel and Lucifer) than to Ruby or Lilith. He's got angel blood, even if that angel was fallen.
Sam powers are different than demon powers, that we've seen. All of the psychic kids were different from demons, actually. Sam can see the future, just like Ava could. Andy and Ansem could command people with their voices. Max had telekinesis and Lily could kill with her touch. Scott could harness electricity. Jake had super strength and developed Andy and Ansem's power as well.
These are pretty specific powers - and nothing like anything we've seen demons do. Demons seem to have some telekinesis powers, but, at least to my eyes, it appears to manifest differently.
Beyond this, I'd like to bring Anna into the equation. Anna, too, was angel and human. She also manifested her powers in a way that is similar to the psychic kids - she didn't know what was going on, she didn't understand, but under pressure she could save herself. When she regained her grace and blasted everyone, her eyes went yellow.
And Uriel thought she was an abomination who needed to be destroyed. (Hint: Who else does Uriel think is an abomination who needs to be destroyed?)
I think it would be kind of amazing if it turns out that Sam's powers are truly angelic and he's some kind of bastard half-breed - that Azazel found a way to get around the Nephilim problem. It would be truly ironic if, after working with Ruby, a demon, and trying to fight his powers because they were evil, it turned out that Sam has more in common with Castiel and Dean has more in common with Ruby.
In any case, I want to know where the fallen angels hang out. It's obviously not Hell. Where's Lucifer? Did Azazel have buddies? Is yellow the color of an angel's eyes? How did Azazel drip his own blood into Sam's mouth - do high ranking (fallen) angels get their own bodies a la Good Omens?
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When Anna fell, she ended up on Earth, moreover, she became human unaware of her angelic origin. If you take a close look at her "re-angelification", you can see her eyes turn yellow. This might be a coincidence, but maybe not.
Also, weren't the Nephilim giants? :)
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But reading about it still makes me happy. In all my happy places. *g*
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SoooOOOoooOOOoo many possibilities. All which make me REALLY impatient for March 12. *le sigh*
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He could be like one of the great men of old, but an abomination, like different kind of Nephilim (would explain the height, too, lol). He could be like Jesus - equally human and divine. He could be a human with angelic powers.
I don't think he's necessarily tainted, though, any more than all humans are tainted.
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I mean tainted in that the 'angelic' blood from Azazel was the blood of a fallen angel - I would think the falling twists the power, giving it an evil essence. Like, how Anna's regain of power turned her eyes yellow, but then bloomed into blue as she ascended.
*shrug*
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I do agree that Sam's powers are quite different from the standard demonic power-set we've seen. Beyond that though, what he can do doesn't make nearly as much sense if it is demonic in origin as it does if it is angelic. He can send demons back to Hell. It doesn't seem likely to me that a demon would ever have this kind of power, but it sure does seem likely that an angel would possess it.
I also believe that Ruby has been following standing orders from Azazel this entire time. She showed up almost immediately after Azazel's death and her highest priority has been getting Sam to use his powers. Tell me, how can she even teach Sam what she isn't capable of doing herself if she didn't have instruction from someone else?
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Dammit. I wasn't expecting that.
(But, given the knife and everything, it does make sense... though only if Show is bothering to use Azazel's designation in the lore as the one who taught war...hrrrrrrrmmm...)
I wonder if we will ever know for sure.
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While I myself love the thought of Sam being the demon side and Dean the angel, but Sam's powers don't seem completely demonic.
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Azazel was the one who gave mankind weapons so I get the feeling that with Sam he's created the ultimate weapon. And like someone said above, I totally think Ruby's in cahoots with him
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These are pretty specific powers - and nothing like anything we've seen demons do. Demons seem to have some telekinesis powers, but, at least to my eyes, it appears to manifest differently
we saw Tammi in Malleus maleficarum use the demon pulling thing on Ruby, so demons can do this and it just depends on who is the "stronger" demon. Also I may be wrong, because we never actually saw Ruby pull a demon herself, but I always gathered she knew how to do it because she taught it to Sam?
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Sam's demon-pulling is supposedly an offshoot of Ava's controlling power come to think of it, so I want to say it's a Psykid exclusive.
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The more I think about it the more it seems to me that what Show really is driving at is blurring any heretofore clear cut lines - with angels becoming humans, humans becoming demons, maybe angels becoming demons, too - and who is to say the other way round doesn't exist as well? Disgusted with the usual black-and-white in movies (and RL), I'd love to see that happen.
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the more it seems to me that what Show really is driving at is blurring any heretofore clear cut lines - with angels becoming humans, humans becoming demons, maybe angels becoming demons, too
I like that to a -degree- (a very small one) but I also think that there are some clear distinctions that do need to be made. If they are us and we are them and there isn't any difference except for power level and whether you're solid or not, it takes away from the unearthliness and some of the awe/horror of what you're dealing with.
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it takes away from the unearthliness and some of the awe/horror of what you're dealing with.
I see your point - but IMO the scariest thing is never what you perceive to be on the outside of yourself (oooh - these demons!!!)but realizing what is inside yourself. That's what made Heart and Metamorphosis so cruel - and Fresh Blood (Gordon as vampire!) and Little Dream (Dean becoming a demon!)even more so because in the latter this realization didn't come for people who had been completely innocent of any knowledge before it happened (like Madison and the Rugaru)but even worse: people who were so sure they were NOTHING like the awful things they were hunting - only to realize they were indeed the same thing (or going to be).
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I would like above all things to think that Mr. Kripke is going to tie in the some high ranking demons are fallen angels, Azazel was, therefore Sam doesn't have demon blood in him he has *angel* blood! idea, but of course we will have to wait and see.
We need to know several specifics to be sure, such as what the different demonic eye colors mean. At this point I'm leaning towards black eyed demons being humans turned in Hell - what Ruby is, what Dean would have become. Ruby clearly says she was once human. However the red, yellow and white eyed demons could all be from the ranks of fallen angels.
The information you give about Azazel is new to me (no research) and fits so perfectly.
There is another point I have been chewing over, involving a theory about what Azazel's ultimate purpose for Sam was, along with some loopholes that may turn out to be plotholes.
One theory I have heard several times is that Sam was intended to be Lucifer's vessel on Earth. Great theory as far as it goes. But I have another.
What if Sam was meant to be Azazel's new vessel, or in some way to permit Azazel to "return from death". We see the flash of Sam with yellow eyes a time or two, one of which is implied to be Dean having a freak-out. Yellow eyes for Sam could be because he was "infected" by Azazel, who has yellow eyes. And who, so far is the only yellow eyed demon we know of, though there can be more than one red eyed demon (crossroads demon Sam killed, and later one he met), and more than one white eyed demon (both Lilith and Alistair).
Why would Azazel need a vessel, when he was already able to possess any human body? Maybe he wanted a body with access to more powers. Or maybe he knew he was going to die because, uh, Dean Winchester told him so, a long time ago.
I already know there are huge holes in this idea, specifically that Azazel was already embarked on his bargaining for kids pyramid scheme at the time Dean told him. But it's the kind of ironic time-loop stuff that shows up whenever someone goes to the past.
I'm not sold on this idea but it does intrigue me a little.
I definitely like your ideas, though. Sam has so much in common with Anna, like you pointed out. Our Sam has always been intrinsically good, yet rebellious. And lets face it, Sam fans would love nothing more than for Sam to be a hybrid angel. ;D
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Again, according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith): Lilith (Hebrew לילית) is a mythological female Mesopotamian storm demon associated with wind and was thought to be a bearer of disease, illness, and death. The figure of Lilith first appeared in a class of wind and storm demons or spirits as Lilitu, in Sumer, circa 4000 BC. Many scholars place the origin of the phonetic name "Lilith" at somewhere around 700 BC despite post-dating even to the time of Moses. So her name and presence predate the folk tradition (it is not in the Bible) of Lilith as Adam's first wife. (The Wiki article is very helpful about the source for that concept (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith#Folk_tradition).
This doesn't establish either of them as angels, so in that particular you are right, but it does show them as having at one time been supernatural beings, gods or demons, outside of Christian mythos.
Since angels existed before humans were created, I suppose it could be argued that there is some parity there.
I'm very curious to find out (and who knows, we may not) if Eric & company are going to address the whole Christianity vs. other religions view of the world. Because the existence of angels does not establish Christianity as the "one true reality", since there are angels in other religions as well, including older ones.
Food for thought and rampant speculation. ;-)
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To my knowledge, Alastair is just a derivative name from Alexander (the Scottish version of Alexander, to be exact). Alexander was a Macedonian leader (Alexander the Great), but not a god. Although, if they are going for "Alastor" rather than "Alastair," I would suspect the Powers That Be would be going after the "generic evil spirits" of Christian demonology rather than Greek epithets. However, it could also simply be his name (much as Ruby appears to be her name and not something from mythos).
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When I saw Uriel "pull" [burn?] the demon in 4.10 I thought of how similar it was to what Sam can do. Also, the demon "sleepy touch" is a kinder gentler version of Lily's touch of death. So again we see that the psychic kid powers are similar to the powers of the angels.
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This!
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I'm looking forward to the next episode though, it's been a while since Castiel's previous appearance. Gotta love that angel, even if he's a tad bit scary