So I came back to my computer after an early afternoon of pumpkin picking, cider tasting, and grocery shopping with the intention of finding car ads on the internet (which will, hopefully, commence shortly).

But I, like the fool that I am, checked my flist first.

First conclusion: Jared says Sam is sexing Ruby. I am not going to click because I used up my weekly rage quotient watching the debates last night. I won't. I won't. I will just click on my friends' commentary.

Then: Wow. I'm already pretty upset. Clicking on communities won't burn me more.

Now: Hoo-boy.

Let's start with the standard definition of rape: Sex where one party does not or cannot give consent. (Cannot would, in the real world, apply to, among other groups, ten year olds, coma patients, and people who are falling down drunk.)

Now, I think we've always know that demons are taking over bodies (meatsuits). I've played around with this concept in my fanfiction, especially in my The Sour for the Sweet where I talk about male demons inhabiting female bodies and the gender fluidity there and discuss Ruby wearing different bodies. Are You There God? It's Me, Dean Winchester, in my opinion, hammered this point home: there are people in those bodies. To Dean, Meg says, "I was trapped in there, screaming at you, 'Just help me! Please!'" and "Did you ever think there was a girl in here? You just charged in, slashing and burning."

There are people in there and they can't control their bodies anymore. We saw it in Born Under a Bad Sign when the demon possessed Sam and killed the hunter and shot Dean. Meg tells us that she was stuck watching the demon kill using her body and dressing her up like a slut (which, oddly, I never thought of Meg's clothes as particularly sexual). Being out of control of your body in any way in the real world is a terrifying experience, but having another people take it over? Must be beyond horrifying. And I think that's a huge point of Meg's presence in Are You There God? It's Me, Dean Winchester. We're not supposed to forget that.

So, if Sam is having sex with a demon-possessed (or angel-possessed) body? I don't see how that comes down to anything but rape. If Meg and Sam witnessed the murders their bodies were committing, they would experience sexual encounters to which they couldn't consent if their demons chose to go that route. If they cannot cry out for help and they cannot say yes, they cannot consent. If you have an argument to the contrary, I'd love to hear it.

It's perfectly possible that Jared has not thought this through to the extent that I have. (I'd be a little surprised since this show is his job and my hobby, but I'll give him benefit of the doubt there. Maybe he's not the crazy workaholic that I am.) The writers appear to be disagreeing with him on the Ruby sex issue and I would hope that they've given it the same level of thought that I have. Turning Sam into a rapist is actually one of the few things that could make me hate his character and want him to die and leave Dean. I would prefer him a murderer than a rapist. Maybe it's because I've been sexually assaulted or for a thousand other reasons, but I think that rapists are the dirtiest scum of the earth.

What actually bothers me more than the potential of Sam being a rapist (because it is only the actor's theory and whatever, he's not the writer) is some fans reactions. The fans who are saying, "Oh it's not rape, who wouldn't have sex with Sam?" and "I don't care if it's rape. Sam needs relief. He's human and humans make mistakes." A) There are plenty of presumably attractive men I wouldn't have sex with. B) He's human and therefore can find a consenting human to sex up/masturbate until his face turns blue. Rape? Never cool. Also, the people who are saying, "Oh, it's just Ruby" are having the crazy talk. Her body would be a person, too.

(All of this would be repeated ad nauseum if Dean were sexxing up Castiel, so don't worry. I'm an equal opportunity ranter. And... aargh. How can people just be like, "Oh, whatever, it's just rape. Men have needs."? How?)
ext_19014: (67 | long road)

From: [identity profile] estarmuerta.livejournal.com


Meg was still alive. We don't know if that body is dead or not, so some of this is moot. BUT it's still angers me (though for different reasons).
ext_21906: (sparkle highway)

From: [identity profile] chasingtides.livejournal.com


Well, a) it's just a theory of Jared's and b) then it'd be necrophilia which is seriously gross (unless it's funny and you're Voltaire) but not as ragey. (Have we seen demons wear dead bodies before? Can they? This is a point I should figure out.)

I'm more angry with the comments of people in some communities which are basically going, "Well, Sam has needs. And this is way more natural and healthy that incest." I'm kind of speechless on that. People shrugging it off bothers me a lot. They're not saying, "Oh, it's not rape, it's x. Or y. Or whatever." They're saying, "I don't care. Sam deserves it, he hasn't got laid in ages."
ext_19014: (Ned | window)

From: [identity profile] estarmuerta.livejournal.com


Yeah, remember the dude with the slashed neck in Jus in Bello? Meg's body should have been dead but either that's one tough broad or they just had her be conscious for that last scene for the story (since she's the one who told them where to find daddy).

Uh, people are saying that? Wow... I'm glad I didn't read those. But, remember, this is in [livejournal.com profile] dean_sam, your #1 source for all the faggotry in this fandom.
And there are plenty of real, alive girls that would jump that ass. I still wish Ruby would be a dude, but then people would still slash that shit up so I guess it wouldn't help... but at least it wouldn't be canon.
ext_21906: (wheelchair)

From: [identity profile] chasingtides.livejournal.com


I always figured that the demons somehow kept the bodies from dying? Because they keep doing things like breathing/speaking? On the other hand, they don't bleed and stuff...

Until I watch Sam get his awkward sex on with Ruby it won't be canon, but yeah. Whatever. Jared thinks his character is getting it on. I think it's creepy but no one cares about that. It's the people who think that rape is a healthy expression of sexual appetites that bother me.

From: [identity profile] stopwatch-plz.livejournal.com


I totally agree. I just don't think he thought about what he was saying. Also, didn't Kripke say he only included that bit to tease the fangirls because they always go mad whenever the boys seem to get a love interest? So I'm totally ignoring that scene because, for me, it doesn't have anything to do with the story. I mean, she might've been having a shower, she might've been sleeping, who knows.

I'm with you on the Castiel thing. I don't care if the guy "prayed for it". It's still posession which is 9/10 of the law *grin*

Srsly, though - yeah. Not cool. Not cool at all.
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