Glee

[chasingtides]

So, I made two mistakes. One, I watch another episode of Glee. (Warning: Mattress comes with unexamined domestic violence, discussion further in.)

Then I went on to make my second mistake - I tried to talk about the issues with Glee (as per what I've seen: racism, ablism, sexism, domestic violence; I have seen discussions of issues of queerness).

People seem to be using, "But it's satire!" as a way of shutting down issues with the show. I won't deny that the songs are catchy and fun, but I am having a lot of trouble seeing how the issues I'm having are satire on the show.

Will pins his wife to the wall, gripping her wrist so hard that we can see the strain in his hand, even after she tells him he's scaring her and asking him to get away. Then, while she seems near tears, he lifts up her shirt and tears the baby belly off her and starts screaming. (FYI, I think she's right that the club is an unhealthy obsession for him - example: writing the check for the yearbook ad when they obviously didn't have the money for it. Also using it as a cover for emotional cheating.) I wouldn't have as much of a problem, except we are supposed to see him as the put-upon victim.

Quinn says Puck got her drunk the night he got her pregnant - but somehow she's the cheating lying slut? And Terri's clearly scared of Will and got some mental issues, but she's the shrewish angry wife? And what's with the minority kids getting less screen time and I won't even touch the ablism?

Can someone please explain how this is satire and not really offensive crap?

[In other news: I'm apparently working extra hours and six days a week until Christmas. Oh god, I'm going to die.]

Comments

[yakbites.livejournal.com]

I'm with you. Either the satire is so delicate and nuanced that I just don't get it (which I doubt) or this show has some real problems.

[amory-vain.livejournal.com]

I keep asking the same questions. And I'm glad I'm not the only one who was totally freaked out by Will's attacking Terri in Mattresses. My roommates were like "What, he's angry! And she's a lying bitch!"

I'm not kidding. "He's angry" is apparently now an excuse to behave abusively?

[sgrio.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I wasn't too enthusiastic about Glee to start with, and after this episode I just don't care anymore. I don't see why I should give a shit about any of the characters. If I wanted to watch satirical comedy about blithering idiots, I'd watch Clueless.

[oregano42.livejournal.com]

Stopped watching Glee pretty much for similar reasons- before it even got to anything as graphic as the scene you've described.
As far as I can tell, it's supposed to be satire _because_ he's being portrayed as the victim. Or, at least, that's the general way the first few episodes were going. The writers seem to take plotlines that would be considered, by most, to be really offensive and slightly twist them- and then call it satire. It just was not well done. Also, it's incredibly depressing.

They've pretty much either got to go full Ianucci (which would never be allowed on US network TV primetime) or admit that adding cover songs to a technically nice roll of film makes people A-okay with just about anything (like The Producers?).

[foldingstar.livejournal.com]

I am afraid I cannot give my opinion yet coz it has not been on over here. However, the first episode is next week. I will get back to you....mind you, the topic might be exhausted by then.

[virginia-fell.livejournal.com]

Satire pokes fun at people in power. Poking at marginalized people is the exact opposite.

Television fail.

[onthetide.livejournal.com]

I'll be honest, I never really noticed the racial stuff on Glee until recently. But this week's episode? Mercedes is gonna have a badass solo and then she gives it up to Rachel? Oh HELL no.

I think Sue's character is satire, and she's the reason I watch the show. But the rest of it? Feels genuine to me and I might not be watching anymore after Shue's little outburst.

[originalpuck.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this. I've had to explain it to far too many people, and still I was accused of harshing their squee. The thing about Quinn and Puck bothered me so much that after that episode I stopped watching it, but my wife still tunes in. The domestic violence scene actually gave me a panic attack -- too damn real. The aftermath of that made me a little sick, though I've seen some good places (like this) addressing it.

But to see so many people defending those things, people who've gone through the same shitty instances refusing to see it for what it is --- gah. Rage.

Part 1

[lfg1986.livejournal.com]

Okay, here goes nothing.

I'm clearly in the minority here, and I do NOT want to argue, so I'm not gonna comment back after this comment (though I do promise to *read* whatever response you chose to give), but I'm gonna have to...not necessarily disagree, but maybe put things in another way. Terri has been abusing Will FROM THE PILOT. Not physically, but definitely mentally/emotionally. She's the most unsympathetic character in the entire show and I've yet to see her do ONE redeeming thing for the entirety it's been on. Every seemingly "nice" gesture she makes is laced with selfish motivations and fear of getting caught. She knew exactly what she was doing, and the only reason she kept up the lie was because she was selfish and didn't want him to leave (which quite frankly, he has just cause to do, she's a HORRIBLE wife/person regardless of the baby issue). The line that got me that NO ONE seems to even notice is her "The only reason this marriage works is because you don't feel good about yourself." Yeah, THAT'S healthy and totally okay for her to say, right? Because she's a woman and therefore incapable of making her own decisions and acting like a mature grown-up. She's just a victim of his obsession, right?

That's NOT to say that physical abuse is okay, because it's not, and I do agree that the wrist grab was a bit much, but I really do not see that as "abuse". I see it as a snap reaction that he probably regretted afterward. If he was going to hit her, he would have. There's been ZERO evidence save for that one scene that he would ever be physically violent; in fact he's refrained on several occasions from hitting Sue, and she borders on being the most obnoxious one and probably most deserving of a good sucker-punch with the exception of Terri. I think Will was totally justified in his reaction, especially because when he first went in to the kitchen, he calmly asked Terri to tell him the truth, and she refused, trying to twist it around on him for not trusting her when in fact he was RIGHT. I'd be mighty angry, too, and yeah, I'd probably throw the pad, but that doesn't mean I'd HIT her or anything else. He threw it behind her, not AT her, anyway. I've seen the scene many times now, and I understand it's intense and can be upsetting to some, but I really do NOT think it's indicative that he is physically abusive. He was blinded by anger, and I can't blame him one bit after all that she did to him for MONTHS.

[mechanicaljewel.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't watch it, so going by your description I can think of three things:

1) Satire is supposed to foment discussion on the issues raised, so if that it the case, the fandom is doing it wrong.

2) It's not satire, but more like Mad Men, which plays Unfortunate Truths straight so that we can see how unfortunate and true they are, in which case the fandom is still doing it wrong.

3) The show writers fail at life.

[kira-bouviea.livejournal.com]

Honestly I stopped watching Glee about five or six episodes into it. The songs are catchy (and I listen to them on my way to class) but they're not enough to actually watch the show. A friend who still watches the show buys the songs and makes a CD of the ones she thinks I'll like.

The thing is, the episodes that I did watch, seemed kind of off to me, and at the time I couldn't figure out quite why. I also couldn't seem to quite feel any pity for the main characters, and the ones I wanted more back story on, didn't get any screen time really. So, I didn't really see the point in watching it anymore.

It was only after I stopped watching that I started hearing things. Sorry I can't be any more help. I was kind of hoping that the show would get better as it progressed in the season, but I'm guessing that's a big fat no?

As for satire, maybe the show's trying for that angle, but they just aren't quite hiting it?

I almost hate to ask but, from what you've seen of the show what are they doing with Kurt and Sue's characters?

[optimus-life.livejournal.com]

I'll be staying far away from that show, thanks for a head's up.
The SNL skit last weekend slamming Tiger Woods had me keyed up for two days. 0-0 the "it's not x" astounds me. People just don't want to see and go to great lengths to try and shut people up.

[khyros.livejournal.com]

2) It's not satire, but more like Mad Men, which plays Unfortunate Truths straight so that we can see how unfortunate and true they are, in which case the fandom is still doing it wrong.

Thank you. I haven't really felt like the show has been satire and I haven't really been able to articulate what it is. As originalpuck said, some of the behavior is so borderline that it's not easily classified as satire, though it's more palatable to think that it is.

As a fan of showtunes and former choreographer of my broadway group, I have wanted to like the show, a whole lot, but have found myself watching it more like a train wreck than anything else, because it has never felt like satire. It has felt like a show about morally ugly people doing hateful things.

That being said, the scene in the kitchen which you're calling abuse, yes, that was an isolated instance of abuse. I think that between lfg1986 and lotus_bright, a capable job has been done of explaining other perspectives on the situation, but, I'm quite in lfg1986's camp on the characters' motivation.

Given the raw amount of hateful behavior that goes on in the show, an isolated relatively tame moment of physical violence is what you find so upsetting?

I don't know that we're supposed to buy Will as the put-upon good guy hero. Let's say it's not satire, but a show about ugly people who do ugly and hateful things, but occasionally manage to produce something beautiful. (Giving the show a little more credit under mechanicaljewel's category 2, than it maybe deserves). In that scene, we see overtly and unambiguously that there's a side of Will, whose largely been acting the role of good guy hero, that's just as ugly as anyone else on the show.